Official Luthiers Forum! :: View topic - please think before you glue

I used to use ordinary super glue for gluing wooden elements, and that was enough. I can say that so far no problems have been found. I don’t think I would use epoxy

We don't have 100 years of history for CA.

I have been using Titebond for 45 years. I have a few of the first instruments that I built with it and they are fine.

Barry (or anyone else with long term Titebond experience), have you noticed any creeping with your joints. I've heard that is a potential problem, just wondering what your experience has been.

Barry Daniels wrote:

I have been using Titebond for 45 years. I have a few of the first instruments that I built with it and they are fine.

Barry (or anyone else with long term Titebond experience), have you noticed any creeping with your joints. I've heard that is a potential problem, just wondering what your experience has been.

Hesh

Do we have 100 years history on Titebond-type glues? I know I have seen WWII piece still perfect with resorcinol glue at 80 years, but what is the history of PVA glues?

Ed

Author:	Dave Baley [ Fri May 15, 2020 12:47 pm ]
Post subject:	please think before you glue
I know there are legitimate reasons for doing so, but please, please, think twice or thrice before using epoxy or, to a lesser extent, other hard to reverse glues in an instrument. Just one of the atrocities encountered recently is shown in the pic. Epoxy was liberally gobbed between the shim under the fretboard extension and the sound board. The shiny stuff in the photo is just the remnants of the squeeze out. Someone before me completely ruined the rosette in this area trying to deal with the epoxy. Fortunately for me, this piece of top was already broken free of the rest of the guitar (sound board and braces both) so it came off with the neck (also epoxied) and could be mostly salvaged. Dave

Author:	Chris Pile [ Fri May 15, 2020 12:48 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: please think before you glue
Obviously committed by an amateur DIY'r.

Author:	Zenetnabar [ Thu Jun 04, 2020 1:30 am ]
Post subject:	Re: please think before you glue
I used to use ordinary super glue for gluing wooden elements, and that was enough. I can say that so far no problems have been found. I don’t think I would use epoxy

Author:	Hesh [ Sat Jun 06, 2020 12:42 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: please think before you glue
Zenetnabar wrote: I used to use ordinary super glue for gluing wooden elements, and that was enough. I can say that so far no problems have been found. I don’t think I would use epoxy Not a fan of CA for Lutherie work beyond some finish repairs on polyester, a drop, only one small drop for a nut and sometimes, rarely there is the perfect crack that is closed, together, level and only needs some glue. Reversible glues are what should be used for most things on a guitar so that it can be reglued and repaired later on if need be. These include HHG, original Titebond, and most quality epoxies. Epoxy has very few applications in proper Lutherie too beyond pore filling and certain "appropriate for the instrument" repairs and fretting. Ov*tions used mostly epoxy which is part of the reason for their very poor reputation. Lots of builders here like CA for rosettes and binding but I never did. One of my friends Paul Woolson who is a superb builder, one of the best in my experience reported here that he had binding come off after having been glued with CA and in chunks too. Who needs that after the finish has been applied..... This statement about CA and binding will be controversial here because serviceability takes a back seat to building, sadly. My view is that there is no reason why a properly made small builder guitar can't be in service at least 100 years. We don't have 100 years of history for CA. Lastly one of the huge issues with CA for Lutherie work is that we can't clean it up on certain finishes such as nitro. What's needed to remove it will eat the finish. Not good.

Author:	Chris Pile [ Sat Jun 06, 2020 12:52 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: please think before you glue
Quote: We don't have 100 years of history for CA. This is true of so many things in this day and age - not just in world of luthiery.

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Author:	Ruby50 [ Sat Jun 06, 2020 4:20 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: please think before you glue
Hesh Do we have 100 years history on Titebond-type glues? I know I have seen WWII piece still perfect with resorcinol glue at 80 years, but what is the history of PVA glues? Ed

Author:	Barry Daniels [ Sat Jun 06, 2020 5:09 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: please think before you glue
I have been using Titebond for 45 years. I have a few of the first instruments that I built with it and they are fine.

Author:	Freeman [ Sat Jun 06, 2020 6:00 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: please think before you glue
Barry Daniels wrote: I have been using Titebond for 45 years. I have a few of the first instruments that I built with it and they are fine. Barry (or anyone else with long term Titebond experience), have you noticed any creeping with your joints. I've heard that is a potential problem, just wondering what your experience has been.

Author:	Chris Pile [ Sat Jun 06, 2020 11:22 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: please think before you glue
Quote: Barry (or anyone else with long term Titebond experience), have you noticed any creeping with your joints. I've heard that is a potential problem, just wondering what your experience has been. One word. NO.

Author:	Hesh [ Sun Jun 07, 2020 4:10 am ]
Post subject:	Re: please think before you glue
Freeman wrote: Barry Daniels wrote: I have been using Titebond for 45 years. I have a few of the first instruments that I built with it and they are fine. Barry (or anyone else with long term Titebond experience), have you noticed any creeping with your joints. I've heard that is a potential problem, just wondering what your experience has been. The answer is no here as well. My business partner Dave Collins has been heard saying that cold creep for Titebond is a myth and that's been my experience too. We have seen plowed finish in front of bridges, rarely, very rarely.... suggesting cold creep but we also know that in these instances there were extenuating circumstances such as incarceration in a hot car causing a lifting bridge too.

Author:	Hesh [ Sun Jun 07, 2020 4:13 am ]
Post subject:	Re: please think before you glue
Ruby50 wrote: Hesh Do we have 100 years history on Titebond-type glues? I know I have seen WWII piece still perfect with resorcinol glue at 80 years, but what is the history of PVA glues? Ed Yes, 108 years at present and hopefully.... counting. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyvinyl_acetate I should have been more clear I'm speaking of the technology of PVA glues vs. the technology behind CA glues.

Author:	Barry Daniels [ Sun Jun 07, 2020 9:03 am ]
Post subject:	Re: please think before you glue
The only place that I have seen creep in a Titebond joint is on a hammered dulcimer. Keep in mind that this thing has a hundred strings on it so the stress is like a thousand pounds of force. It has one pinblock joint that has slipped about 1/16", but it has not come apart.

Author:	gxs [ Thu Jun 18, 2020 1:48 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: please think before you glue
I've had no problems with Titebond. I have had some recommendations to use hide for splines from this group, but for everything else from headstock repairs, bridges, braces, FBs, binding, plate joining, I've had no problems for 10 years. I feel if do have problems with some heat or stream I can retry.

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